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About Literature / Hobbyist Community Volunteer Lili Leader-WilliamsFemale/United States Groups :iconcrliterature: CRLiterature
CR hub for Literature Community!
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Deviant for 4 Years
Core Member 'til Hell freezes over
Statistics 614 Deviations 14,882 Comments 125,688 Pageviews

Random from DDs I've Featured

If you'd like to suggest a piece of literature to be featured as a Daily Deviation, please read my guidelines and then send me a note!



Moar Critiques:

:bulletblue: Critique on Blood and Secrets: Chapter 1 by FadedDreams5
:bulletblue: Comment on The Plant in the Moss by NatureGuide
:bulletblue: Comment on Book Cover - Making Amends by CB-Productions
:bulletblue: Comment on unworthy. by bowie-loon123
:bulletblue: Critique on Annie in the Garden by leyghan
:bulletblue: Critique on Revolver in a Bag of Puppets by PursuingTheCerberus
:bulletblue: Critique on To Know the Universe by OctoberAzriel
:bulletblue: Critique on Fairly Feminist Fairy-Tale by MissGnat
:bulletblue: Comment on Before The Boat Leaves: Freedom by angeljunkie
:bulletblue: Comment on Stained Skies by sunwisp
:bulletblue: Comment on A New Millenium by AspiredWriter
:bulletblue: comment on fathers by flummo
:bulletblue: Critique on Sweep by Geistlicher
:bulletblue: Critique on And the Clock Ticked On by Viking-American
:bulletblue: Critique on Gentle are the Strong by Vigilo
:bulletblue: Comment on Dance for You by Lupizora
:bulletblue: Comment on Re Birth by Braxton-T-Rutledge
:bulletblue: Comment on Mama by DeriveAnemone
:bulletblue: Comment on The Wizard's Princess by raspil
:bulletblue: Critique on at the expense of by InklingsOfOblivion
:bulletblue: Comment on Bloodlines by SadisticIceCream
:bulletblue: Comment on Love Letters from the Mariner by laurotica
:bulletblue: Comment on The Trial of Private Bauer by doughboycafe
:bulletblue: Comment on Before Gretel by VeronicaRiles
:bulletblue: Critique on A Drop of Your Blood, Please by TheMaidenInBlack
:bulletblue: Comment on Life of a Toothbrush by friday-kills
:bulletblue: Comment on Betrayed by JenFruzz
:bulletblue: Comment on Wine of Dreams by Obelis
:bulletblue: Comment on Fresh Air by poems-about-hue
:bulletblue: Comment on August's Skeleton by 91816119
:bulletblue: Comment on trails of flames are left in the wake of stars by Kildosad-Malik
:bulletblue: Comment on Slot Machine by AspiredWriter
:bulletblue: Comment on Word Flipping by TheKerwinator
:bulletblue: Comment on The Theory of Special Relativity by BATTLEFAIRIES


:iconwritersink: :iconcommunityrelations: :iconddsuggestiondrive: :iconseniormentors: :iconcrliterature: :iconseniorselections: :iconthewrittenrevolution:

LadyLincoln put together an absolutely fabulous tutorial to help people understand the difference between a lit and journal submission! 

3 deviants said Let's clean up DA's lit gallery together! :la:
2 deviants said And show it to anyone you notice using the two categories incorrectly! :D
No deviants said Go give it some love:…

2016 Lit Mag Submissions

:bulletpurple: Pankhearst Fresh Series ACCEPTED!
:bulletpurple: Cahoodaloodaling Issue #20: Trigger Warning ACCEPTED!

Community Links

To Be Read in 2016

| :bulletgreen: = Not Started | | :bulletyellow: = Currently Reading |
| :bulletpurple: = Finished | |:bulletred: = Abandoned |

:bulletyellow: The Collected Works of Sherlock Holmes by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
:bulletgreen: The Chrysalids by John Wyndham
:bulletgreen: Satan Says by Sharon Olds (Poetry collection)
:bulletgreen: The Gunslinger (Dark Tower Series) by Stephen King
:bulletgreen: Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austen
:bulletgreen: Dirk Gently's Holisitic Detective Agency by Douglas Adams
:bulletgreen: Silence of the Lambs by Thomas Harris
:bulletgreen: Nightwood by Djuna Barnes
:bulletgreen: The Goldfinch by Donna Tartt
:bulletgreen: Atonement by Ian McEwan
:bulletgreen: Go Set A Watchman by Harper Lee
:bulletyellow: The First Bad Man by Miranda July
:bulletgreen: This Is Your Life, Harriet Chance! by Jonathan Evison
Welcome to the ninth installment of CRLiterature's new article series, The Tearoom Debates! We've shamelessly ripped off Mrs-Durden and CRPhotography, who currently run a bi-weekly series of opportunities for group readers to debate both sides of questions like "film or digital?" and then, in the next article, spotlight the input of the previous week's commenters.

Last Time: Rhyme vs. Free Verse

We wanted to know why DA is flooded by free verse with little traditional/fixed form and rhyming poetry to be found. Here's what some of you had to say:

"There are some traditions that are outdated and no longer applicable in everyday life. The situations or parameters for them to be helpful have disappeared and their application would be frightful at best. To suggest that fixed form poetry belongs in that category would be entirely erroneous, however. Fixed form poetry is our history and it bears the origins of the spoken and written word. Every continent holds its own magical languages with their interesting poetic quirks, and this is what poetry was created and shaped from. Centuries and millennia of people expressing their thoughts, feelings and philosophies have a place in the world we see around us.

Forms like the Pyong Sijo of Korea, the Magali Shairi of Georgia and the English Madrigal are very old and beautiful. They convey the evolution of language in three vastly different geographic and cultural locations. They also teach writers of different backgrounds and skill levels particular lessons that appear only in their respective fixed forms. Some fixed forms use meter and refrains, others syllabic count and alliteration and others rely simply on a shaped structure. They all force a writer to explore their own limitations and expand their thinking while producing something completely unique to them. Often as writers, we get stuck in what we perceive is our own voice, but this is just us repeating the same sentiments in a similar way but with different words. Breaking this cycle is paramount to our growth as writers and fixed form is a crucial way to achieve this." -- kiwi-damnation 

"If I were to make an analogy with free verse being a three-legged stool that performs the function of a chair quite well, rhyme would be the Louis XIV chair with the carved armrests that makes people go, 'wow, that's a nice chair'. Likewise, I see Free Verse as the pure and bare bones of poetry - the vision and the sentiment, its core, are equally valuable as those in a fixed form with rhyme, but it's the craftsmanship of knowing how to handle rhyme and make it work that will pay off and augment the reading experience exponentially. Just like that Louis XIV chair comes closer to sculpture or architecture than the stool, so does a rhyming form bring poetry closer to music, which has not only the intent to bring a message across, but also to enchant - in my opinion, by emphasising the beauty of the form more." -- BATTLEFAIRIES

"I like the challenge of the Rhyme or Tradition forms (or even a form that the poet has invented him/herself).  I have read more than once that restrictions breed creativity.  We as human beings naturally do not like restrictions.  We often rebel and defend against restrictions in every aspects of our lives.  It is this same rebellious spirit that in fact created free verse.  However with no restrictions, we limit our creativity.  I feel that I have grown as a writer thanks to the limits in placed upon myself by the traditional forms and rhyme.  When the two lines I have decided must rhyme I have to ask myself "is that really what I want the line to say?  Is there another way to say it? Could I use maybe another bit of symbolism to convey the same idea or can I come up with a better one?"  Often I can find myself digging though a rhyming dictionary and a thesaurus trying to fix the ideas in my head to a word on the page (because my mind often doesn't work in fixed words).  I also find it easier to make a rhyming or traditional poem if I am not thinking in words but in ideas or images." -- psycocat 

"I read a verse novel and if anything it drove home the point that I associate rhyming with humor. Thanks Dr Seuss. in general, good poetry is good poetry. it shows when you thought through the word choice and when you were busy wanking to your thesaurus." -- neurotype 

"I think rhyming is an incredibly difficult addition to poetry (as I've learned during the DFC). I find it really helps adds a certain appeal to the way a poem sounds and adds a beautiful rhythm when used correctly. However, I believe rhyme shouldn't be forced of put in "just because" since sometimes this can create a very awkward poem. Honestly, the reason I avoided rhyme for so long in my own work is probably because it reminds me of English class in school. That was when most of my poetry was created just for a mark rather than to convey anything meaningful." -- autumnicity 

"If rhyme impedes the message of the poem, than it's a needles distraction. If rhyme supports the message of the poem, than it's a beautiful distraction. That said, I don't see why free verse and rhyme can't coexist." -- Carmalain7 

Free verse is not free of structure, nor is it any easier than writing in rhyme, so if everyone could stop perpetuating that myth, that'd be great. Free verse is free of fixed structure, forms that exist in name - sonnets, pantoums, haiku, sestina, and so forth. It may be "free" verse, but only in name; you still need to consider your enjambment, punctuation, rhythm, tone, everything that makes good writing good. Just because a lot of bad writers write in free verse doesn't mean free verse automatically makes for bad or easier poetry. A good artist can make something wonderful out of any materials presented to them." -- SilverInkblot 

"I think there are (at least) two big reasons free verse is more prominent here.  One is that there seems to be a misconception among writers that free verse is inherently more expressive, and that formal restrictions necessarily restrict meaning/feeling.  Personally I disagree on both points, although I didn't always.  What changed for me was essentially just that I got better at working with forms because I happened to enjoy it (which I know isn't the case for everybody, and that's fine too).  That kind of leads into the second reason that I suspect, and that is that although I hesitate to use the word "easier," free verse is more accessible when you're starting out.  For someone who has never written either, I think that free verse really is easier, just because the learning curves are different (although naturally improvement gets harder over time no matter what you're writing).  And when people learn poetry using one style or another, it makes sense that they'll get more attached to it, because they've been successful in expressing themselves that way and perhaps not in the other.  This is also fine, I think, as long as we don't feel too high-horsey about it." -- HuntingForHappiness 

"The real issue is that we've got several hundreds of years' worth of rhyming poetry behind us, where free verse has only been a mainstream thing for the past 100 or so. Modern fixed form poetry has to fight the fact that it's not fresh unless done very, very well. That's the plain and simple truth of it. We have centuries of magnificent rhyming poetry to read already. If any fixed verse poetry written now wants to hold its weight, it has to be good.

Having said that, it's important for writers to push themselves to do both. Being good at fixed forms is a skill that requires developing, the same way that being good at free verse is a skill that requires developing. Fixed verse still has its place in this day and age, and to say that it should stay in the past is, frankly, incorrect. But, on the flip side of that, there's so much room for exploration in free verse that we can't possibly have touched on in the comparably short time we've had to write and read free verse that it makes sense that more people branch out into that these days. It's not necessarily that it's better, but it's more relevant to this time period." -- ikazon 

"The number of words that rhyme is very limited, resulting in many situations where you can anticipate the rhyme to come. People tend to not appreciate that in this age; they appreciate even less when you invent new words, for some reason. So you're stuck trying to please people who don't want what they expect and who refuse to allow you to create new words. XD A rock and a hard place, to be glib. This is an age-old problem with poetry, not just with rhyme. But that's another topic for another day." -- TheBrassGlass 

"Simply put: it's a matter of style, of what one wants to do rather than spinning the roulette. I mean, if I wanted to write a poem about serial killers, it could be equally as good in free verse or fixed form (although the subject probably wouldn't be the best thing to write about). Laziness plays no part in this, because the choice to rhyme and/or use a form or not is completely up to the writer. In conclusion: both are just fine, and no one side should receive any discrimination purely based on its basic principles. The only way to judge a style is how it is used by each individual writer." -- Aerodynamic877 

"If something is free verse and non-rhyming, I tend to hear it as contemplative and soft. Someone is speaking in quiet bliss, quiet discontent, or quiet horror. It's a thoughtful kind of thing even if the imagery is sharp. Because of this, and because of the lack of structure, I think the authors have to be doubly careful about how they're turning a phrase. They need to make the work stand out and hold attention, and they really should make use of rhythm, repetition, and all those good things fixed forms love too. 

Rhyming works, for me, go above and beyond in failure and success.  The words have a ring between them, making the sounds stick in your head for better or worse. Rhyming works also, as some people have mentioned, seem inevitable. This can make a poem seem forced if it was clear the writer was stuck with certain sounds and only paid attention to the last word in each line. In a well-written one, though, it becomes powerful. You feel that this statement could only have ever been expressed this way, though you may have been too caught up in the words to notice that rhyme on your first read." -- dragoeniex

I see so many people talking about how free verse is 'easy' or 'lazy' poetry. I disagree whole-heartedly.  When I first began to write poetry, I wrote exclusively in rhyme, because honestly, rhyming poetry is much simpler. You have a fixed form, a fixed rhyme scheme, and you make the words fit into the form. Free-verse...good free-verse poetry is much more difficult to write because there are no rules or sets of guidelines. It's you, a pen, and an empty page, and you have to create everything. You rely a lot more on metaphors and imagery, and those things take much more skill to put together in a cohesive way, especially with no set form or rules. Also, to those who think free-verse poetry is simply prose in a fancy hat, I challenge you to attempt to write a GOOD free-verse poem, using poetic structure and a poet's tools. Write a metaphor without sounding cliche, and put it together in a way that flows as a poem should. It's much more difficult than writing a short prose essay on a subject, I guarantee you." -- MozartsNemesis

This Time: Is fan-fiction really literature?

"Omigosh of course it is. I've always been frustrated by the view that it could be anything but that. To be fair, I'm been frustrated by anyone who has the gall to tell me that there is such thing as "true art" or a "true form" novels. God, this isn't Shadow the Hedgehog. There is no "ultimate lifeform" of what writers do. Fanfiction is real writing as much as a cup of tea is a real beverage." -- Naktarra 

Of course it is real literature. The only problem I see with fanfiction comes with the fact that when you want to publish or make any money from it, since you are basing it on a universe that in most cases already belongs to someone, you're probably never going to be able to... unless you do like Someone Else and change the names and slightly alter the situations on your fanfiction so you can publish it. :') 

But yeah, back on track, I despise the whole "fanfic isn't literature" thing that some entitled people spout. It is as real and as awesome as any other writing. Sure, a lot of people use it just as a morbid, make-my-guilty-pleasures-come-to-life kind of thing, not because they love writing in itself, but that doesn't always create a bad product. So you ignore the bad, as for everything else, and cherish the good." -- TheMaidenInBlack 

I would say it is. I think it's often criticized unfairly for being bad; but really, there are fantastic fanfics, just as there is horrible original fiction. The other big argument against is its lack of creativity. Which, I can sort of understand in some respects. But at the same time, I've seen some tremendously creative fanfics that take the characters and put them in worlds completely different from the original, and yet manage to keep the characters in-character. Like any media, I really think that the quality of the product relies on the skill of the author; not necessarily the topic material." -- ObsydianDreamer 

I think trying to define "real literature" is harder than trying to figure out whether fan fiction is "real literature" or not. I'd say it's real writing. And as such deserves to be looked at through that lens.

I also think that since it's working from (not just inspired by) something someone else built, that it is in a way more of a starting point for most writers. Sort of practice. Or even practice for writers between projects. (I know several published authors, including some big names, who enjoy writing and reading fan fiction!) An author has to learn to build his or her own characters, world, story, etc. Usually when writing fan fiction, you're pulling some of these elements from someone else, and that's something worth noting." -- PinkyMcCoversong 

Over to you, DA!


Add a Comment:
overseer Featured By Owner 3 days ago   Digital Artist
Thank you very much for watching me.
(1 Reply)
BlackBowfin Featured By Owner 5 days ago  Hobbyist Writer
Hey there, Lili. Thanks so much for the feature. At the start of a busy year with little time for writing, I found much encouragement to "get back at it" in your kind gesture. Thanks again. :hug:
(1 Reply)
JustACapharnaum Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2016
Welcome to the group :iconmacropoetry:

Please take the time to read
the rules of the group before submitting your work to our group :dummy:
We hope you enjoy your stay with us :happybounce:

Have a nice day!
(1 Reply)
SheDares Featured By Owner Jan 31, 2016  Hobbyist General Artist
Thanks so much for the watch, m'dear :tighthug: :heart:
(1 Reply)
pulbern Featured By Owner Jan 27, 2016
Just drinking my morning coffee at my desk procrastinating diving into my homework when I noticed all this attention on The Specific Abstract. And now I'm a blubbering mess. Thank you for the love!!!! :glomp:
(1 Reply)
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